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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/Message.gif" border="0"></td><td width="100%"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000"> <b>Virus In Linux - Debate?</b> </font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000">Virus In Linux - Debate?</font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></p><p><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#000000">
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>penguin</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Do we
really need to install antivirus software on your LinuxOS-based
computer? Linux follows File Sysetm Heirarchy Standard and is
considered to be more secure with it's file system permissions and
previliges structure. Hence is there a real virus threat in linux? If
so, how and what is it? What makes linux vulnerable to virus, in case?
Anyone who wants to speak about "Virus in Linux" , please echo your
words here....</font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 04, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 13:45:10</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>matt y</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><a href="http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/board/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowProfile&amp;ID=rev_matt_y&amp;Board=linvwin&amp;Idle=0&amp;Sort=0&amp;Order=Descend&amp;Page=0&amp;Session=" onmouseover="window.status='View matt y (rev_matt_y) Profile.';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000">Profile</font></a><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"> | </font><a href="mailto:matt@punitiveart.com" onmouseover="window.status='Send email to matt y.';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000">Email</font></a></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">I've
been using linux for about 5-6 years now, and full time for over 2
years at least.  I don't know a single person who has ever gotten a
virus while running linux.</font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 05, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 07:11:18</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>kevin</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">I've
been running linux full time since 1995.  I also am not aware of a
single person who has ever gotten a 'virus' on linux.  However, in unix
we call them 'worms'. <img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/Wilk.gif" border="0" align="middle"></font><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Due to the design of
unix, these things are theoretically impossible.  But due to buggy
implementations, they can become possible.  So in the exceptionally
rare circumstance that one of these nasty buggers gets out in the wild,
the solution is a bug fix rather than virus scanning software.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">For example if you are
hooked up to the internet running web servers / etc and no firewall,
you could be vulnerable to worms or hacking.  There have been several
cases of unix worms in the last 20 years; the first biggie was in the
mid 80's (long before I started using unix).  I also remember a couple
years back there was some sort of web worm going around attacking
linux. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">The difference here is in
how this sort of thing is handled on linux.  In the windows world, 
virus scanners would have been updated to scan for a fingerprint of the
virus and alert you.  In linux, the vulerable application is
immediately patched; that type of worm can never happen again. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">They key to protecting
yourself in linux is to keep up with your security updates; on redhat
for example, use up2date regularly.  And use the linux firewall
(firestarter works great to configure it).</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 05, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 07:34:12</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>Penguin</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">What
is the difference between a worm and virus or trojans? If there are no
viruses in linux, then why there are so many anti-virus softwares in
linux, such as Vexira, RAV etc. , I am just curious to know . So kevin,
u mean to say that there are only vulnerabilities in some linux
software, which are utilized in spreading the worms. But there are no
viruses in real. <br> I am working for a corporate and we are aiming to
provide a standard Linux Desktop for our employees. The question is ,
is it required to provide antivirus software with the desktop or not?</font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 06, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 06:58:16</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>matt y</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><a href="http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/board/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowProfile&amp;ID=rev_matt_y&amp;Board=linvwin&amp;Idle=0&amp;Sort=0&amp;Order=Descend&amp;Page=0&amp;Session=" onmouseover="window.status='View matt y (rev_matt_y) Profile.';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000">Profile</font></a><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"> | </font><a href="mailto:matt@punitiveart.com" onmouseover="window.status='Send email to matt y.';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000">Email</font></a></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">The
AV software I've seen for linux is intended to be used on linux servers
(primarily gateways or mail servers) to prevent the virii from getting
to the end users machine (usually a Win box).</font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 06, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 07:03:02</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>kevin</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">&gt; What is the difference between a worm and virus or trojans? </font><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">They are all malicious programs, but what is different is how they spread.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Trojan - Like the story
of the trojan horse; You purposely install a program onto your
computer, say some email client.  But what if the email client itself
chose to contact the author whenever you ran it, and allow him to gain
access to your computer?  That is a trojan.  You put it there, because
you trusted it and thought it was legitimate, but it wasn't.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Virus - These are
malicious programs you didn't ask for; they find their own way onto
your computer.  They can often attach themselves to many different
kinds of programs, or come in word documents, etc.  The key here is
that the program that you purposely downloaded was not the culprit; the
virus is a stowaway.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Worm - this pretty much
refers to a program that can 'hack into' machines; ie, you didn't
invite it in any way whatsoever.  You just happen to be running a
vulnerable mail/dhcp/other server that listens to internet traffic. 
Worms actively search for and expliot systems on the net.  Like an
automated script kiddie hacker, it "knows" how to break into a few
types of systems and just does it.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">So let's look at how these are addressed in the world of linux:</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Trojans: Peer review
helps people pick apps that are legit; it is generally accepted that
evolution is a 'safe' email client (no wisecracks please <img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/Wilk.gif" border="0" align="middle">
). However, it is still possible to get a copy of evolution that was
hacked by someone other than the author; what if someone cracked the
ftp server you downloaded it from?  Every so often you hear about this.
How to defend against this?  The smart way is to use md5 checksums from
one site, and download your email client from another.  Not sure if
anyone is actually doing this; but I have noticed that distros like
gentoo perform md5 checksums on software before it is installed. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Virus: These just don't
seem to happen in the wild on linux, and the reason why is hard to
explain in detail.  My best explanation (and I am certainly not an
expert on virii) is that the inherent security at many levels in a
linux system, which is always ON BY DEFAULT.  As so many have pointed
out, the majority of the system is read only to any program that
doesn't know the root password.  Period.  But there are other reasons;
as many as there are viruses.  I don't want to make this into a novel,
so I'll just punt and hand you my opinion, which you can take or leave:
I think the jury is still out on whether virii will ever be a serious
problem in linux.  But right now it certainly isn't.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Worms/hackers: This is a
more realistic problem for unix, and something that everyone with a
linux machine connected to the internet should be concerned with.  I
lumped worms together with hackers because they are really the same
thing, especially if you consider script kiddies.  The solution to this
is: keep up to date with security enhcements on all your internet
daemons.  If your software is impenetrable by the exploits these
worms/kiddies employ, then they will simply skip to another machine.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">matt y:  Couldn't have
said it better myself.  Penguin: You often see email accounts being
offered with virus protection.  These systems are usually unix based,
and they filter the MS based virii out of email as it passes through
the system.  I can (and have in fact) copy a windows virus onto my
linux hard drive; outside windows it is helpless.<br>
After a quick check of Vexira, it appears to be this sort of scanner.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">&gt; The question is , is it required to provide antivirus software with the desktop or <br>
&gt; not?</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Not at this time.  But keep an eye on this; if the situation changes, you will find out about it.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">As I said above, the #1
thing you should worry about is hackers/worms.  There is plenty of
information out there about how to secure a linux machine; it usually
consists of these rules:</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">- Don't run any services
you don't need; ie don't put web servers on every corporate desktop if
they aren't going to use them.  Nmap will tell you what a system is
running.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">- If you must run internet daemons (services), run the stable software and keep them up to date with the latest bug fixes. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">- For that matter, keep the entire system up to date with the latest bug fixes.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">And when I say 'latest
bug fixes' here, I mean something specific.  Take RedHat for example. 
I absolutely would not run a production system on RH8.0 or RH9.0, ever.
Instead, look at RH7.3; it is currently the 'stable' release from
redhat.  It doesn't change, the software is well tested in the field,
and has gone through several incarnations.  The automatic updater
(up2date) will fetch the bug fixes and security updates automatically. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">If RH releases a 9.1,
then a 9.2, I would then consider upgrading to 9.2 (hypothetically). 
Because there are few if any major changes from 9.0 to 9.1 to 9.2;
instead, it is just polish, bug fixes and security enhancements.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Most linux distros have
the concept of a 'stable' branch vs a 'testing';  in debian they
actually call it that.  In RH, you have to understand their version
numbering.</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 06, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 13:36:37</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>scriptkiddie</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Is
Red Hat still going to do point releases? I thought they decided to
kick the x.1, x.2, version numbering for a simple x, x+1, x+2
versioning system. Why, I have no idea. Maybe they are going to do a
Microsoft like approach and just release fixes and enhancements as they
go, rather than release a whole new system.</font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 06, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 19:50:49</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>kevin</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">scriptkiddie:</font><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">You raise a valid point, and I can't answer your question definitively.  But I have a good guess.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">When RH released 7.0,
they called it RedHat 7 and not 7.0; I was a bit thrown by this
initially, and presumed that with RH7 they were going to simple version
numbering.  They subsequently released 7.1, the 7.2, and finally 7.3. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">When the major number
rolled to '8', they once again just called it '8' rather than '8.0'.  I
expected a '8.1' to be forthcoming, but instead they shortly thereafter
came out with RH9. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">RedHat has a history of
jumping the gun on new technology; changing too much a bit too fast.  I
suspect that is why we saw the jump from RH8 to RH9; they broke it. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Then again, maybe they
just changed their version numbering scheme, and all public releases
are considered 'stable'.  Before making a real decision about this,
check out RH's web site or give them a call; I'm sure they would be
happy to straighten you out.  ;)</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">My main point here was
that you should be _aware_ of your linux vendor's policy regarding what
they consider to be 'stable' releases; most linux vendors do make a
distinction.</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jun 06, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 23:13:44</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>penguin</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">Here is what I came across....</font><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">1. simile is the first polymorphic and metamorphic virus to infect both Windows and Linux machines.<br>
2. Bliss has been called a virus for Linux, a common Unix trojan, a virus-like trojan with worm-like features   etc </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">there are several examples I think..........<br>
I don't know whether there are any latest virii for linux....but the
fact is there are virii for linux and I think antivirus is a must for
linux too....<br>
....<br>
Penguin</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jul 10, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 07:48:36</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<td width="10"><img src="virus%20in%20linux_files/SmallMessage.gif" border="0" alt="RE:Virus In Linux - Debate?"></td><td width="50%"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>RE:Virus In Linux - Debate? (modified 0 times)</b> </font></td><td width="50%" align="right"><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><b>linux_learner</b></font></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td valign="middle"><font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">penguin,</font><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">viruses are self
replicating code. as kevin pointed out, a self replicating code is hard
pressed to work in linux. for one reason due to permisions, as kevin
explained. the other reason that viruses arent found in linux, is
because viruses are generally written in VBSscript. windows uses Visual
Basic, and Visual Basic script. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">worms, as kevin pointed
out, are different. worms are kind of a cross between viruses and a
hack. a virus because it does fall into the self replicating code
catagory. a hack, because a worm seeks out computers with a specific
vulnerability. this is how a worm exploits linux/unix. usually the
vulerability gives root access, so the worm has the ability to write to
the drive, to replicate.</font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">as kevin pointed out, there are two practices users need to follow. 1) check the md5checksums. 2) keep up to date. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">if users follow these two
practices, there wouldnt be any need for anit-virus software. even in
the windows world these two practices would go along way in preventing
viruses, worms, and trojans. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">while linux local security is generally better than windows, you should check it and configure it to your specifications. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">previously i stated that
i was "impressed" with the local security policy of the computers at
work, running windows NT 4.0 with service pack 6. i found a
vulnerability, that was simply massive and quite impossible in linux.
what i did was this; i clicked on the "favorites" button in internet
explorer, the right clicked "media". from that i was able to select
"explore". it opened up for me, the entire C drive, giving me access to
regedit, cmd promt, and a whole lot more. this being on a computer with
local security enforced. </font></p><p>

<font face="Verdana" size="2" color="#000000">this is one reason why
viruses are such a threat to windows, and why they are not much of a
threat to linux. things could change. it is always best to stay aprised
of such issues. complacency and ignorance are your worst enemies.</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff">
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<td><font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#000000"><font size="1" color="#000000">Jul 13, 2003</font><font size="1" color="#000000"> 05:06:11</font></font></td><td align="right"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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